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Disastrous Fate
General
September 15th, 2012 @ 12:47PM
Registered:
2004-02-09
Location:
Posts: 1012
| Insert conversation about how Christians aren't nearly as bad, and then a conversation about the Crusades and the Inquisition and European colonialism, then a conversation about how that's not really a fitting comparison, then blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah |
padnfain
Peon
September 15th, 2012 @ 1:01PM
Registered:
2005-08-16
Location:
okalhoma
Posts: 14
| No doubt, how many people have we killed innocently with drones. In the crusades Christians killed Christians merely because they spoke a different language. And how our christian heritage with manifest destiny slaughtered native americans. Yeah Christians are peace loving in what they preach, but the majority are just like those that practice every other religion out there and don`t apply it in how they act in their daily life. |
Smokin Joe
Marine
September 15th, 2012 @ 1:01PM
Registered:
2006-06-10
Location:
The Land of Chocolate
Posts: 2245
| Obligatory off topic post regarding bankers taking over the working class via fluoride laced water while black helicopters are planting charges for the next staged domestic terrorist attack. |
Disastrous Fate
General
September 15th, 2012 @ 1:06PM
Registered:
2004-02-09
Location:
Posts: 1012
| "Obligatory off topic post regarding bankers taking over the working class via fluoride laced water while black helicopters are planting charges for the next staged domestic terrorist attack."
Oh man, I seriously laughed hard at this. |
RowdyRoddyPiper
Nut Job
September 15th, 2012 @ 3:14PM
Registered:
2003-06-20
Location:
Nashville TN
Posts: 1675
| heres how you have a proper argument with a muslim: bring up the fact their so called prophet mohamed married a 6 year old girl. This is fact its in their book. No other prophet married a 6 year old girl because that is child rape. if the muslim trys to explain it away you simply say they support pedophilia and then kick their teeth in. game over |
padnfain
Peon
September 15th, 2012 @ 5:13PM
Registered:
2005-08-16
Location:
okalhoma
Posts: 14
| And that would be accepted in Catholicism except they tend to use boys. |
killer6600
Marine
September 15th, 2012 @ 6:17PM
Registered:
2007-06-16
Location:
canada
Posts: 1160
| you're so peaceful rrp! |
Crazieman
Special Ops
September 15th, 2012 @ 7:14PM
Registered:
2003-03-25
Location:
Wichita, Kansas, USA
Posts: 481
| Yup, comparing Christians from a thousand years ago is totally valid. You're all retards for continually bringing up the Crusades.
The matter is the here and now, not a thousand fucking years ago.
So get back to me on riots NOW, for stuff like Piss Christ, Last Temptation, Bible burnings, and that one movie that won the Venice awards about a chick masturbating with a Crucifix. |
Blazer
Instigator
September 15th, 2012 @ 7:52PM
Registered:
2003-09-04
Location:
Syracuse, NY
Posts: 1821
| RRP wins this thread! |
TheSilver_Ghost
is awesome.
September 15th, 2012 @ 9:04PM
Registered:
2003-03-25
Location:
wisconsin, USA
Posts: 1066
| I tend to not go around kicking in people's teeth because I'm not psychotic.
I don't think there can be a peaceful religion due to how they're set up, so I'm not really going to judge. All of the muslims I know in real life seem to be pretty good people which is all I really know. |
Disastrous Fate
General
September 15th, 2012 @ 9:18PM
Registered:
2004-02-09
Location:
Posts: 1012
| "I tend to not go around kicking in people's teeth because I'm not psychotic."
+1 |
Hammer
Special Ops
September 16th, 2012 @ 1:00AM
Registered:
2009-04-07
Location:
Posts: 371
| Wow, I have never seen a post looking to troll so hard on this website --- ever.
I'm not even sure where to start commending or even if its necessary.
I guess I am going to take the high road and say every religion is easily corrupted into a presence of hate of anyone who doesn't believe exactly as they do.
The thing that annoys the crap out of me is religion can be a great resource to learn basic ethics, learn to respect one another, learn a strong moral compass. It also lends itself surprisingly so easily to cult mentalities of hate, corruption and greed.
I'm not a fan of Catholics who roam the world and say "We have the cure for that hundred year old illness the modern world cured in the 1800s. Join our religion and we'll give you the cure". I'm not a fan of Mormons / Jahovas who go on "mission trips" to annoy the crap out of everyone to join their religion. Mostly, I'm not a fan of any religion (or at least the teachings there of) that teach you it's ok to kill people in the name of your God.
Call me slightly right (or left) of necrotic, but I've always felt that if people can't identify that their religion is teaching them to do anything that oppresses other people in or out of their religion, then its probably a good marker that person needs serious psychological help (psychological profiles and tendencies not withstanding).
I just can't fathom how anyone could believe that a religion that teaches oppression, tyranny or anything that suggests to their patrons that if someone doesn't believe what they believe they're going to Hell. I just don't understand how anyone could buy into that mind set. Rationally, sure, I can pull out things like antipositivism to explain why someone would invest into a religion like this, but at the end of the day, it still doesn't make sense in my head. It makes me want to beat people with a 2x4 and say "HOW DO YOU THINK ITS OK TO THINK LIKE THIS **RAWR**!!!".
/grumble, grumble (no, no moblin bait available to appease me!) |
killer6600
Marine
September 16th, 2012 @ 1:30PM
Registered:
2007-06-16
Location:
canada
Posts: 1160
| ok crazieman, what about the dude that killed the sihks a month ago?
waco, oklahoma city, assassinating abortion doctors, countless back and forth between christian factions in africa.
|
LaGG
Peon v2.0
September 16th, 2012 @ 2:23PM
Registered:
2003-03-30
Location:
Phoenix, Arizona
Posts: 718
| http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6ITkCCLKqM |
Mazer_R
Marine
September 17th, 2012 @ 1:10AM
Registered:
2003-09-03
Location:
Wheatland, CA
Posts: 262
| Bad people will do bad things regardless of their religion. But only religion can make good people do bad things and call it good in the name of their diety. |
Smokin Joe
Marine
September 17th, 2012 @ 7:20AM
Registered:
2006-06-10
Location:
The Land of Chocolate
Posts: 2245
| But only religion can make good people do bad things and call it good in the name of their diety.
What about soccer hooligans? There have been a few deaths related to violence because of who you root for.
Or even Nationlism. During the Euro Cup this summer I saw as Poles and Ruskies fought each other over beliefs, ideals and what flag they grew up under. |
Charkoth
Right Wing Extremist
September 17th, 2012 @ 8:05AM
Registered:
2003-05-08
Location:
OHIO
Posts: 2207
| I was actually considering picking up the Koran over the weekend so I could read it and speak from authority in the face of anyone who says "Islam is a peaceful Religion"...provided the Koran reads as I hear it should that is.
Christianity and Islam are VERY different even though they claim to follow the same God (of Abraham).
Christians follow the teachings of Jesus who was pretty much the first hippie without the drug-abuse, whining, or that Godawful smell.
Muhammad is just some poser who is anything but nonviolent. |
RowdyRoddyPiper
Nut Job
September 17th, 2012 @ 8:42AM
Registered:
2003-06-20
Location:
Nashville TN
Posts: 1675
| "Muhammad is just some poser who is anything but nonviolent."
And a pedophile |
Disastrous Fate
General
September 17th, 2012 @ 10:02AM
Registered:
2004-02-09
Location:
Posts: 1012
| I hate when discussions of religion turn toward the "true meaning." I mean, that's debatable. Christians have found a way to find support for the Crusades, slavery, racism, genocide, etc. etc. etc. Meanwhile, there are wide stretches of history where political Islam was, if anything, more cultured, peaceful, and pragmatic than the Christianity of the time.
Sure, the Koran supports more violence than the New Testament. But the Old Testament is pretty messed up too. When we judge Judaism, do we judge it based on the implied racism and xenophobia? The wide support granted for the butchering of other peoples? Sure, Christians believe the New Testament has made that obsolete, but Jews don't. Take the same critical eye you have for Islam and redirect it.
You could say, well, Jews in practice aren't like that. Then we'd just be back where we started.
In any case, I totally called like 90% of this thread in my first post. |
Charkoth
Right Wing Extremist
September 17th, 2012 @ 11:21AM
Registered:
2003-05-08
Location:
OHIO
Posts: 2207
| Since when did Christians "support" the Crusades or Slavery, or Genocide?
The old Testament law was broken with the coming of Christ so when in doubt, go with Jesus.
I'm not defending the Jews, but considering their enemy is Islam I'd say let God sort it out as we're about to find out.
Jews haven't persecuted Christians since they killed Jesus.
|
Disastrous Fate
General
September 17th, 2012 @ 11:44AM
Registered:
2004-02-09
Location:
Posts: 1012
| "Since when did Christians "support" the Crusades or Slavery, or Genocide?
"
Are you kidding? Just because modern "good" Christians who "understand the New Testament" are against these things, that doesn't change the past. Christians found perfectly acceptable ways to justify the Crusades, antebellum slavery, the expulsions of the Jews, repeated incidents of killing Jews, etc. etc.
"
The old Testament law was broken with the coming of Christ so when in doubt, go with Jesus. "
I was explicitly talking about the Jews: "Sure, Christians believe the New Testament has made that obsolete, but Jews don't."
"Jews haven't persecuted Christians since they killed Jesus."
I think you're wrong on this, as the early days of Christianity are rife with conflicts between Jews and Christians. In any case, if Jews had the power that Christians and Muslims have had, I'm sure we'd know more than a few instances of Jews persecuting Christians.
"
I'm not defending the Jews, but considering their enemy is Islam I'd say let God sort it out as we're about to find out."
Since when are Judaism and Islam opposed? Don't get me wrong, there are movements within both religions that advocate for this, trying to justify bloody aggressions and counter-aggressions. However, I'm pretty sure this is -far- from official policy. Even Muslims typically criticize Zionism, not Judaism itself. The ones who go beyond that are radicals/extremists. They don't speak for their entire faith, just as Crusaders and abortion clinic bombers do not speak for all Christians. |
Charkoth
Right Wing Extremist
September 17th, 2012 @ 1:39PM
Registered:
2003-05-08
Location:
OHIO
Posts: 2207
| There are huge differences in people making war in the name of Christianity and people waging war in the name of Islam.
One is sanctioned by the faith, the other is not.
All religions not Islam are the enemy of Islam, the Jews just happen to have a history of warring with them and are the nearest target. Peaceful Islam
|
Disastrous Fate
General
September 17th, 2012 @ 1:47PM
Registered:
2004-02-09
Location:
Posts: 1012
| "There are huge differences in people making war in the name of Christianity and people waging war in the name of Islam.
One is sanctioned by the faith, the other is not. "
It depends on who you talk to. Those Crusaders very much thought their actions were sanctioned by their faith. Meanwhile, I know plenty of Muslims who, well, don't see killing others as part of their faith in Allah. I also know plenty of Jews who do not see themselves as being racially superior than everyone else, despite that being the -foundational tenet of Judaism-.
My central point is that the source (Hebrew Bible, New Testament, or Koran) doesn't really seem to matter. People find justifications for everything. |
Hammer
Special Ops
September 17th, 2012 @ 2:17PM
Registered:
2009-04-07
Location:
Posts: 371
| Wow, never saw this before --- the site ate my comment --- I guess I'll retype it again later when I have time to again =(.
EDITED: 2012-09-17 14:18:29 |
Smokin Joe
Marine
September 17th, 2012 @ 2:42PM
Registered:
2006-06-10
Location:
The Land of Chocolate
Posts: 2245
| I don't really get the point Charkoth is trying to prove. You trying to show that Islam is inherently not-peaceful? That its prophet was a phony or not as awesome as Jesus? That the founders of Judaism/Christianity are more better represented currently?
My view of organized religions has always been that they are a tool. You can grab hold and use them for your own benefit, or you can use it along with some charisma to gather followers. Whether you then decide to do good or bad, it's up to you.
I doubt any religion today truly represents what it was based on during its respective founding.
Edit: Added one more to my guesses, and removed smart-assness.
EDITED: 2012-09-17 21:27:49 |
Charkoth
Right Wing Extremist
September 18th, 2012 @ 9:27AM
Registered:
2003-05-08
Location:
OHIO
Posts: 2207
| My central point is that the source (Hebrew Bible, New Testament, or Koran) doesn't really seem to matter. People find justifications for everything.
My point wasn't one of justification, but of validation. I could read one verse in the Bible that says to kill homosexuals and go on a murdering spree and call it "justified" but it would go against everything Jesus said. The reverse could not be said of Islam and Muhammad. I 'm not trying to stand for Jews or Christians or organized religion in any way, only counter this apparent assumption that Islam is a "peaceful" religion just because the majority of it's followers happen to be peaceful decent people. |
Disastrous Fate
General
September 18th, 2012 @ 10:40AM
Registered:
2004-02-09
Location:
Posts: 1012
| "...only counter this apparent assumption that Islam is a "peaceful" religion just because the majority of it's followers happen to be peaceful decent people."
The same could be said of Judaism then. |
Smokin Joe
Marine
September 18th, 2012 @ 1:29PM
Registered:
2006-06-10
Location:
The Land of Chocolate
Posts: 2245
| My point wasn't one of justification, but of validation. I could read one verse in the Bible that says to kill homosexuals and go on a murdering spree and call it "justified" but it would go against everything Jesus said..
That's actually a pretty interesting situation because while it may not be what Jesus said, the Bible is the word of the Lord.
Shouldn't the Lord takes precedence over Jesus, thereby granting me the validation I'd need to commit violence? |
Hammer
Special Ops
September 18th, 2012 @ 7:10PM
Registered:
2009-04-07
Location:
Posts: 371
|
Ok, I'm sufficiently in a philosophical enough mood to try this post again!
I'm gonna take a little different spin on this topic by dragging in some psychology into it.
First lets talk about leaders. Statistically speaking:
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