About | GFraizer | Contact

Links

Drudge Report
Fox News
TMZ
Reddit

    Cali-Drivers-Suck.com

RSS


MANAGE BOOKMARKS


USER:

PASS:


LOST PASSWORD
CREATE NEW ACCOUNT
Michael Brown Shooting?
- He was a thug
- cops fault
- dont know
- whocares

Connect




GFraizer
[Amazon Wishlist]
[Battlefield 4] [Steam Wishlist]


Exclusive Photos
[How to Pump Gas]
[Fat Lady + Donuts]
[Dog Bike]


EN Special Accounts
-Special Icon
-Special Title
-Instant Comments
[Find out more]






Sunday, July 1st, 2012SUGGEST NEWS

Do the nasty time. Poll
Posted by: Nebuchadnezzar on July 1st, 2012 @ 11:16AM

I have to give you either or. There's no 3rd choice. Douche or a Turd? Picking neither is the one we'd get with 100% but that's not a choice.



Who do we vote for?
2012-06-29 12:19:03

Obama

41.33% (31)

Romney

58.67% (44)

TOTAL VOTES: 75

Mitt Romney is a Mormon. Which means he believes some guy names Joseph Smith found gold plates in the woods written on by god. How ridiculous is that? Oh and Mitt Romney is a sociopath

This poor dude weighs 70 pounds and you don`t support the only thing keeping him alive? Synthetics don`t work because you have to eat them, and people who throw up everything don`t do well with eating things. I know some widows who would love to punch Romney in the face. Seeing someone not able to eat is really sad. The fact he acts like this is evil.

Trickshot
- 2012-06-29 18:51:26

COMMENTS (65) | POLITICS | DIGG
COMMENTS
ADD COMMENTS | SEND TO A FRIEND | BOOKMARK | SORT LAST TO FIRST
nate_orenstam
Special Ops

June 29th, 2012 @ 12:48PM

Registered:
2003-04-05
Location:
Posts: 1447
as has been true forever, romney has zero chance.
jdLordHelmet
Good is Dumb

June 29th, 2012 @ 12:55PM

Registered:
2003-12-22
Location:
Atlanta, GA
Posts: 1314
Obama leads by 5 in the polls, but they don't matter, etc.
Bashkir
Special Ops

June 29th, 2012 @ 1:00PM

Registered:
2003-04-30
Location:
Alexandria, VA
Posts: 204
I think that you'll be surprised as to how pissed off some people are about required health care.
LanTheWarder
Peon

June 29th, 2012 @ 1:50PM

Registered:
2003-03-27
Location:
Dallas
Posts: 19
I gotta go with Obama. The lesser of the two evils.
rawfish
Peon

June 29th, 2012 @ 2:03PM

Registered:
2003-10-15
Location:
Northern California
Posts: 701
RRP for prez
tsunugundam
Peon

June 29th, 2012 @ 2:19PM

Registered:
2003-03-25
Location:
Posts: 118
Irony: They`re so mad they`re about to move to Canada to get away from it!!

hardcore puppy
Marine

June 29th, 2012 @ 3:08PM

Registered:
2003-11-02
Location:
California
Posts: 285
Hillary Clinton.
cobsteele02
Marine

June 29th, 2012 @ 4:24PM

Registered:
2004-10-08
Location:
O'Fallon Missouri USA
Posts: 709
I am gonna vote for the turd sandwich.
Zelph01
Marine

June 29th, 2012 @ 4:59PM

Registered:
2005-06-20
Location:
Posts: 648
Vote Change. Vote Obama. /sneer

Romney has what this nation needs: economic and business sense. His likeability factor is very high for most who have met him.
forest_queen
Dame

June 29th, 2012 @ 5:11PM

Registered:
2003-03-26
Location:
WA
Posts: 1277
Ditto Zelph.

Obama's health care is garbage and will put our grandchildren in debt forever. This country can't handle the amount of debt that we already have.
DarkShear
Marine

June 29th, 2012 @ 5:56PM

Registered:
2003-04-22
Location:
Seattle
Posts: 710
If we cannot afford healthcare for all, we certainly cannot afford the other entitlement programs in this country Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security. "Obamacare" isn't going to bankrupt our country anymore than all the free spending attitude we have had for three presidential terms.

Will Romney fix our country? Doubtful. Plus I feel like I would be voting for someone that is a member of Scientology. Zelph who is Romney hanging out with that "likes" him so much? Dude comes from money and I'm afraid he will continue to protect the uber rich in our country while forgetting about us peasants sloshing in the muddy fields of Tristram.
Hammer
General

June 29th, 2012 @ 6:01PM

Registered:
2009-04-07
Location:
Posts: 657
I was beyond annoyed when I was actually hoping Santorium would snag the nomination so I would have someone I could go down the list and claim he's the lesser of two evils for some key reasons (not a good choice regardless though).

Now that it's Obama and Romney, I'm all but sick to my stomach.

Both of them TRULY have messianic tidings. Obama thinks he's the one true person capable of fixing the country (through socializing it) and Romney TRULY thinks he's the second coming of Joseph Smith.

I --- I can't vote for either of these clowns.

Someone on G+ made what I feel is the most reasonable proclamation of what everyone should do. By some measure through the interwebz, everyone should do a write in for a third candidate. He probably won't win, but at least you'll probably be able to sleep at night knowing you didn't vote for a complete tool.

I *WANT* to be able to vote for president, but at this rate, I'm going to do what I did last time. I'm going to go the polls in November, vote for all my state elections and propositions and leave the president field black.

I want someone I can put my faith in and not be scared to death of what the next 4 years will look like.
Hammer
General

June 29th, 2012 @ 6:01PM

Registered:
2009-04-07
Location:
Posts: 657
I was beyond annoyed when I was actually hoping Santorium would snag the nomination so I would have someone I could go down the list and claim he's the lesser of two evils for some key reasons (not a good choice regardless though).

Now that it's Obama and Romney, I'm all but sick to my stomach.

Both of them TRULY have messianic tidings. Obama thinks he's the one true person capable of fixing the country (through socializing it) and Romney TRULY thinks he's the second coming of Joseph Smith.

I --- I can't vote for either of these clowns.

Someone on G+ made what I feel is the most reasonable proclamation of what everyone should do. By some measure through the interwebz, everyone should do a write in for a third candidate. He probably won't win, but at least you'll probably be able to sleep at night knowing you didn't vote for a complete tool.

I *WANT* to be able to vote for president, but at this rate, I'm going to do what I did last time. I'm going to go the polls in November, vote for all my state elections and propositions and leave the president field black.

I want someone I can put my faith in and not be scared to death of what the next 4 years will look like.
Trickshot
Peon

June 29th, 2012 @ 6:51PM

Registered:
2006-10-22
Location:
Lansing, Michigan
Posts: 498
Mitt Romney is a Mormon. Which means he believes some guy names Joseph Smith found gold plates in the woods written on by god. How ridiculous is that? Oh and Mitt Romney is a sociopath

This poor dude weighs 70 pounds and you don`t support the only thing keeping him alive? Synthetics don`t work because you have to eat them, and people who throw up everything don`t do well with eating things. I know some widows who would love to punch Romney in the face. Seeing someone not able to eat is really sad. The fact he acts like this is evil.
Charkoth
Right Wing Extremist

June 29th, 2012 @ 8:09PM

Registered:
2003-05-08
Location:
OHIO
Posts: 2557
Just ask yourself if you feel better off than you did 4 years ago. That should decide who you should vote for.
killer6600
Marine

June 29th, 2012 @ 8:54PM

Registered:
2007-06-16
Location:
canada
Posts: 1384
what if you think the other person would be worse than the incumbant?
Charkoth
Right Wing Extremist

June 29th, 2012 @ 8:56PM

Registered:
2003-05-08
Location:
OHIO
Posts: 2557
You have a known quantity and an unknown quantity. I'd say there can be a big difference between the two.
Trickshot
Peon

June 29th, 2012 @ 9:14PM

Registered:
2006-10-22
Location:
Lansing, Michigan
Posts: 498
Am I voting for Monsanto or Blackwater? Oh wait, they`re owned by the same corporation.
forest_queen
Dame

June 29th, 2012 @ 9:51PM

Registered:
2003-03-26
Location:
WA
Posts: 1277
I'm also in agreement that the entitlement programs must go. Too many things are bankrupting our country. Obamacare is just another nail in the coffin. America will be unrecognizable if Obama wins another term, we cannot afford this.

If you hate Obamacare, then Romney is your last option after the Supreme court ruling.
Jubedgy
Marine

June 30th, 2012 @ 12:05AM

Registered:
2003-03-26
Location:
Groton, CT
Posts: 318
Trickshot, I watched the video and his response looked like someone who took a stand on a reasonable principle: he is not in favor of medical marijuana. The question at the end was a trap for him and he refused to answer it and instead restated his position, a fairly benign action as those things go.

So he's a sociopath for refusing to change his principles due to one sob story? Harden up, dude, life's not fair.
RyanS
Marine

June 30th, 2012 @ 4:01AM

Registered:
2003-03-26
Location:
Michigan
Posts: 163
I don't care about parties anymore. I'll always vote against the incumbent at this point in time.
Apricoth
Kali Compton Girl

June 30th, 2012 @ 5:06AM

Registered:
2003-06-14
Location:
MN
Posts: 1798
I would not have such an issue with the Obamacare if they had first taken care of the f'ing other bullcrap that sucks up our tax dollars that our country does not need so we can freaking pay back our debt and free up money to fund a program like that. What the fek is wrong with the politicians?!?! Dumbasses they are. This is truly fitting to the saying: horse before the cart. It is unbelievable. I am leaning towards Romney at this point.
redgeopower
Marine

June 30th, 2012 @ 7:24AM

Registered:
2003-08-24
Location:
OR USA
Posts: 186
Nobody will ever be happy with the prez again.
Trickshot
Peon

June 30th, 2012 @ 8:11AM

Registered:
2006-10-22
Location:
Lansing, Michigan
Posts: 498
"Trickshot, I watched the video and his response looked like someone who took a stand on a reasonable principle"

A: He didn`t answer his actual question
B: What reasonable principle? The guy is 75 pounds and he`s saying a plant that grows naturally out of the ground is keeping him alive, and Mitt Romney is against it. That`s completely unreasonable.
killer6600
Marine

June 30th, 2012 @ 8:55AM

Registered:
2007-06-16
Location:
canada
Posts: 1384
why is he against drugs? as a mormon will he try to bring back prohibition? or is he just against drugs because thats the way to go, and if so is that really a principle or just falling in line with a silly outdated lie?
DarkShear
Marine

June 30th, 2012 @ 9:49AM

Registered:
2003-04-22
Location:
Seattle
Posts: 710
Charkoth --- but Romney is a known quantity. He attempted to be the President of the US just four years ago but lost out to the guy who eventually lost to Obama. Why did he lose? Because he's a Mormon which a lot of folks do not view as a religion but rather as a cult.

killer brings up a good point. He is anti marijuana. Why? Religion or personal opinion derived from a source other than his religion? When does he ban alcohol, caffeine and knee high skirts? Oh wait, they would never ban caffeine as that would hurt Coca Cola's sales. Visit Utah someday. Beautiful state, terrible religious heavy handed themes on a lot of things we consider "normal behavior".
Apricoth
Kali Compton Girl

June 30th, 2012 @ 10:47AM

Registered:
2003-06-14
Location:
MN
Posts: 1798
Well, I was able to freely drink coffee while I was in SLC for several months. There are actual coffee houses there.
Wootah
non-leet

June 30th, 2012 @ 12:41PM

Registered:
2003-05-16
Location:
Utah
Posts: 1600
So much crazy in this thread and you guys think romney is crazy?

First. What is a cult and what is a religion? In the american english vernacular, the major difference is ones practices are accepted and the others are not. Yet if you compare what is believed by Mormons and other accepted religions, they aren't all that different. To an atheist, every religion should be a cult: Moses got his info from Burning Bushes, God telling you to slaughter nations, heaven with plush furniture and 72 virgins, A magical golden ark that caused rivers to touch split so that the feet of those carrying it didn't get wet, speaking gibberish in tongues.

Second. Romney is not going to legislate the Mormon church from the white house. Besides the fact that the president doesn't make laws, but executes them. Did you see anything like that when he ran Massachusetts? Not anything that was outside a conservative republican ticket. As Apricoth points out, there are coffee houses in Utah. And most of the alcohol laws that Utah is famous for were ALL created/legislated elected officials, a majority of whom, were representing their districts. Worrying that a president Romney would somehow be able to do or bother wasting his time with anything like this is so completely irrational it boggles the mind.

Third. The video that Trickshot linked is pathetic at best and stupid at worst. These type of traps are all too common in politics. You get someone that the left can often hoist up for the general public to see. The weak, the oppressed, the minority: Grandma who can't afford healthcare, the sickly deformed that needs his marijuana, etc... Then You get them on camera and presenting a stance that is counter to the politicians platform with a sob story with it to villanize them. As for the asinine question, no Romney wouldn't arrest him, he isn't a cop. Would he back up cops who had arrested him? Sure. Again this comes down to executive vs legislative branches. If every body in MA wants to feel bad for this 'special' case they should push to get the law changed for small amounts. Romney knew where it was going and there was no reason to answer that, listened to the guy and knew it was a trap.

What it looks like here at EN.com is that almost all the hate for Romney comes from ridiculous reasons. I haven't seen a good argument against him on this site. Every counter argument is an emotional appeal (Magical Underwear, Bain, Unfeeling, Dog on Roof) that is a useful tactic for liberals to divert attention from what really matters right now: The ECONOMY

At least semi-reasonable people bring up things that actually matter like alleged flip-flops, hiding his Massachusetts records, his health care 'contributions', or individual positions that are either too liberal or too conservative (funny that both get leveled at Romney). We used to talk politics here, but all this chatter about Romney is anything except politics. It has 'celebritized' (my word) the candidates. Of course it makes sense to do that when the common person pays far more attention to these things than actual political record.

EDITED: 2012-06-30 14:08:07
Hammer
General

June 30th, 2012 @ 1:03PM

Registered:
2009-04-07
Location:
Posts: 657
Wootah --- I consider you a great friend and we've had some very great discussions in he past.

However, where Mormonism is concerned, I know you and I aren't going to see eye to eye and for that reason I'm not going to trot out any of the tired related debates (know your battles, pick your fights and don't pick the ones that will leave you walking away from discussions with your friends with bad tastes in your mouth).

The only thing I do really need to say about the topic that scares me --- a lot --- is Mitt Romney has been caught on tape saying he thinks he's the second coming of Joseph Smith along with other high ranking "officials" (lets use that term even though I know its not particularly accurate) agreeing with him.

That's a messianic complex that scares me --- a lot.

Don't get me wrong, I think Obama really has similar problems, however the verdict is very much out weather he buys into this crap himself or just a fringe sect of audience that he panders to when it suits him.

In both cases, that's enough for me not to like EITHER. I could go much deeper, but I feel anyone who deeply subscribes to the constitution should be able to make a complete stop right there and recognize both are blurring the lines between church and state.

I think people like Washington and Franklin are spinning in their graves knowing such candidates have made it to this point the presidential bid.
Mazer_R
Marine

June 30th, 2012 @ 1:29PM

Registered:
2003-09-03
Location:
Wheatland, CA
Posts: 262
There is no measurable difference between the two of them. At the very least, Obama has had his chance and failed miserably to deliver even on rather simple campaign promises. At least give the new guy a try. But to reiterate, they are basically the same, so nothing is going to change.
GroverDill
Special Ops

June 30th, 2012 @ 1:33PM

Registered:
2003-04-09
Location:
your mom's house
Posts: 802
I think that you'll be surprised as to how pissed off some people are about required health care.

And I think you'll be surprised at how many people are indifferent about required health care. Keep in mind that Obama hasn't even started campaigning yet - he has plenty of time to restate the case for Obamacare before the election.

Frankly, I don't see much difference in this presidential election from the last one - I don't see many new exciting ideas (TAX CUTS YAY!) coming from the Republicans this time either. If all Romney has to offer the country is that he will somehow "undo" Obama, then he is going to lose.
Wootah
non-leet

June 30th, 2012 @ 2:19PM

Registered:
2003-05-16
Location:
Utah
Posts: 1600
Hammer.
If he has been caught on tape saying that, I have never heard it, nor has anyone ever posted such a link.

I cannot get Google to produce anything for me, nor even find other people discussing the concept of 'second coming of Joseph Smith' (incidentally, such phraseology would be considered almost comical by other Mormons,although I would understand if that was your word choice and not his).

I imagine that you are far better at using google search than I am ;) so you may be able to find and link said recording, something I would appreciate.
Smokin Joe
Marine

June 30th, 2012 @ 3:30PM

Registered:
2006-06-10
Location:
The Land of Chocolate
Posts: 2702
I'm goin with President Obama again. I like a lot of what he's been able to do with so many people almost completely unjustifiably against him. Smart dude, very pragmatic and doesn't embarrass our Country. Also, most to all of his opponents frame their opposition to him in an extremely weak, blanketed and shortsighted manner - I have yet to find anyone that truly has put up a good argument that the Healthcare Bill is bad for America, or who opposes Barack and believes that some stuff he's done was good instead of the usual EVERYTHING HE'S DONE OR SAID IS SLOWLY DESTROYING AMERICA doomsaying.

Plus, I just can't find myself voting for a CEO for President - especially if they try to use that as 'leadership experience' and whatnot.

If you want to rely heavily on that CEO experience on some future position, stay in the Private Sector because apparently, you're really good at certain aspects of that sector and many of them do not directly translate to the Public Sector.
RowdyRoddyPiper
Nut Job

June 30th, 2012 @ 4:05PM

Registered:
2003-06-20
Location:
Nashville TN
Posts: 1793
its better to not vote and instead tell everyone you know that both sides are bought and paid for working for the same bosses. dont look for a political answer to our problems from the traitors who brought it to us. ....even ron paul who i thought was great only campained to get his son a legacy in politics.

this great quote from marcus tullius cicero, one of romes greatest oraters.

"A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear"

Know that these dirtbags in washington DC are traitors.

obama or romney= doodoo or diareah
heh seriously
Smokin Joe
Marine

June 30th, 2012 @ 5:21PM

Registered:
2006-06-10
Location:
The Land of Chocolate
Posts: 2702
Not voting is stupid.

At least vote for some guy that best fits your opinions or ideals, regardless of his chances.
Miamihrrcne
Marine

June 30th, 2012 @ 10:49PM

Registered:
2004-03-12
Location:
Miami
Posts: 803
every religion starts off as a cult. religion is just the term we use to describe really popular cults.
Hammer
General

June 30th, 2012 @ 11:06PM

Registered:
2009-04-07
Location:
Posts: 657
Wootah,

Sadly it's one of those news articles that came up and got burred immediately.

I had heard it live on one of the various talk shows (It wasn't Rush, but it was another conservative talk show. Taking a shot in the dark, it might have been on Lars Larson I heard it and no, it absolutely wasn't Coast 2 Coast, I don't stay up late enough to listen to that anymore =( ).

Anytime religion has come up in this bid, both sides have been EXTREMELY, VERY QUICK to bury whatever was said. It's obvious both sides know is their achilles heel. The only difference from what I see is it's hard to tell what Obama is afraid of. Is it because of his ties to Rev Wright? Is it because he's really a Muslim (I'm not saying I believe he is, there's just been a lot of news out there that makes one wonder if he is) ? Is it because he thinks he's the second coming of Christ as some of his follows seem to think? The line is far too blurry with him, but I suspect if something ever got out that really illustrate one of these assertions, he'd be done for.

Rush would have you believe Obama thinks he's the second coming of Christ. Sometimes in listening to how he presents himself, I don't know how far that is from the truth. Sure, a leader needs confidence, but something about him goes beyond that into something psychopathic.
killer6600
Marine

July 1st, 2012 @ 11:20AM

Registered:
2007-06-16
Location:
canada
Posts: 1384
i don't understand how bain is an emotional appeal

the point is that he's a great business man and thus good for the economy, and when he was at bain they made a boatload of money by sending jobs overseas, firing people, closing companies.

i guess if you don't like middleclass/lower class people getting the short end of the stick i guess it's emotional
GroverDill
Special Ops

July 1st, 2012 @ 2:51PM

Registered:
2003-04-09
Location:
your mom's house
Posts: 802
Anytime religion has come up in this bid, both sides have been EXTREMELY, VERY QUICK to bury whatever was said. It's obvious both sides know is their achilles heel.

This is silly. Unless one of the candidates is directly basing their policy views on their religious beliefs (and there is no evidence that either of them are) then their religious beliefs are not relevant to the discussion. Without direct evidence, you are allowing your decisions on the direction of this country to be based on fear, which probably isn't such a great idea.
Wootah
non-leet

July 1st, 2012 @ 3:47PM

Registered:
2003-05-16
Location:
Utah
Posts: 1600
Killer,

Bain is emotional because the left is trying to use it as ploy. It boils down to "Romney was a vulture, and killed jobs for his personal benefit" with the semi-illogical implication that he is going to do that same thing for him and his crony buddies once he is in the white house.

Lets break it down thus, and I will explain

1) Sending Jobs over seas
Lets first clear up the difference between sending jobs overseas and outsourcing jobs to other companies. To send a job overseas you close down shop and then open up a similar program/warehouse/operation still owned by your company in another country. Outsourcing is closing down a division or sector within a company and contracting it out to another company who can do it more efficiently, usually because it is their specialty and they do it in bulk. Often times the companies that have been outsourced have offices or divisions or branches outside the united states, but this wasn't Romney sending the job outside the united states, this was getting the job done by the lowest bidder. Of course the common-blue collar Joe doesn't research this. All he hears is the line you are repeating 'sending jobs overseas' and has an emotional knee-jerk reaction to hate Romney without looking at things.

2) Firing People/Closing Companies
People feel hostility towards private equity because they see it as closing jobs or killing companies, but this couldn't be further from the truth. They are saving companies that are failing anyway, and some times they cannot save a company that would have gone under anyway. To quote the bible: "for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell." (matt 5:29 KJV) The entire world of private equity revolves around turning companies around. You don't spend your money to take (aka BUY) a company that is in the red and make it more into the red... no one would buy it from you afterward, and you would lose out. Private equity is serious work to turn a company which is in the red into a company which is in the black to the point where someone else would want to buy it... There is no Looting involved. Which, when having this discussion leads people to say, but they still took TONS of money out of the saved companies to to do this, which could have gone toward the jobs cut.

3) Made a boatload of Money
Somehow the people who feel the emotional spasms of disgust from this aren't familiar with how money works. You have to spend money to make it. And a one time expense to the company to make it worth while for private equity to undertake such gargantuan risks (spending millions to fix a company) is different than recurring annual expenses being greater than profits. It is emotional because this goes on day in and day out, year round, and nobody bats an eye until election rolls around and then suddenly, it gets brought up, repeated, and rehashed, as if it is some crime being committed that is fresh and new. Many of the people getting worked up even have 401K's investing in private equity firms that are doing the exact same thing. They are using their money to facilitate what they loathe in Romney.

So in conclusion: the people who understand how the system works, and the workings of private equity aren't bothered by it at all. You can talk and talk about the destruction it supposedly causes, and they understand the benefits and wont be bothered. Thus all the talk really does is win over the people who will become emotionally involved (often people in the middle, since the left is totally schizophrenic with their love/hate of the rich) and why i included bain in the emotional attacks.

Ultimately, you are either going to have to accept it and the system as a whole or you can continue to hate Romney for his Bain and turn a blind eye to everything else going on around you. As many analysts said during the Bain attacks, that this might become a larger referendum on capitalism as a whole. And in that case I might want to point out that Obama has a MUCH Worse record when it comes to and public equity:

Romney's Private Equity vs Obama's Public Equity

So, when people say that they would rather have Romney in office because he would be like a CEO, and other people balk because he 'outsourced jobs' remember that Obama is doing the same thing with tax dollars, has lost a comparable number of jobs, Much MUCH more money, and the money that he does lose is Not his own, But the Taxpayer's Money.
killer6600
Marine

July 1st, 2012 @ 4:12PM

Registered:
2007-06-16
Location:
canada
Posts: 1384
so if romney sent the jobs overseas and paid the people there himself thats bad, but hiring a middleman to do the same thing is ok?

there was looting involved, there were companies they bought, charged massive "consulting fees" to that company they owned and then once they were paid declared bankruptcy, yes that is how the system works but it doesn't make it good
forest_queen
Dame

July 1st, 2012 @ 5:36PM

Registered:
2003-03-26
Location:
WA
Posts: 1277
Any religion can be made out to be retarded if you let Matt Stone and Trey Parker make a Southpark episode out of it. Seriously guys, grow up and move past the religion. I'd rather hear intelligent debate on policy.
Apricoth
Kali Compton Girl

July 1st, 2012 @ 8:26PM

Registered:
2003-06-14
Location:
MN
Posts: 1798
The religious discussion in the current political arena is moot at this point. Actually, it has been moot for a very, very, very long time. The decisions that have been made (throughout all branches of government mind you, not just the President) have been steering far and wide what our founding fore-fathers had established this country on. I am betting if they could, they would be writhing in agony in their graves in answer to what has been happening and continues to happen. Seriously, as someone mentioned here the President does not make all the decisions... All that crap has to go through other government branches - how many of those folks are "Christian" and are true to their faith? I would bet not a great deal of them - they might tote how "religious" they are but are tried and true hypocrites (evidenced by the half-assed policies that come out of there that hurt this country).

I do not agree with the Mormon faith but that shall not dictate how I vote this time around. In fact, I do not even think about that person's religious affiliation (as long as they are not practicing witchcraft or voodoo or satanism that is) - it doesn't seem to matter. I have heard that it matters in the eyes of the world.. Quite frankly, how has that helped us domestically and internationally? hahaha Not a damn whole lot.

I am with forest_queen on this - forget religious discussion - it doesn't seem to matter much. "Religious" is just a convenience card played by the politicians. They wave it in our faces like it's some smoke screen - to hide their ulterior motives. pppffffttt on that.
Trickshot
Peon

July 1st, 2012 @ 8:48PM

Registered:
2006-10-22
Location:
Lansing, Michigan
Posts: 498
There are a far number of people who have realized we are too sophisticated for religion. Try Ted
Wootah
non-leet

July 1st, 2012 @ 10:23PM

Registered:
2003-05-16
Location:
Utah
Posts: 1600
Killer. The answer to your first question is a resounding yes. I am sorry that, but some things have to go, especially when they are killing a company. IT is a classic example. Tons of university IT departments have culled their email systems entirely which cost ridiculous amounts of money and moved over to Google because it was free. Google can afford to do that (and make some money through ads) because that is what they specialize in, leaving more money for the university to do what they specialize in.

Do you begrudge a company from cutting costs to be efficient.

Based on different beliefs, I doubt either of us will agree or even change our minds with regards to looting a company, so lets let that pass.

But answer me this question: Do you feel that Obama has 'looted' the american public by diverting Tens of Billions in Loan guarantees to green companies, most of whom were campaign donors and bundlers?
Mathias
Peon

July 2nd, 2012 @ 8:58AM

Registered:
2004-06-25
Location:
TX
Posts: 86
I am glad to see lots of people want to move on past the religious topic. I agree. In fact I probably should not say what I am going to because it will just bring it up again. However, I can`t let what Hammer said go without a comment.

Hammer, I don`t believe you know that much about what Mormons really believe.
I also don`t believe Romney ever said what you say. However, even if he did, that is utterly ridiculous to a Mormon. To put it in the context of a broader Christian belief, it would be like someone saying they are the second coming of Moses or Abraham. Mormons simply believe Joseph Smith was a prophet. His second coming make as much sense as the second coming of Methuselah.

Mormons do believe that everyone will be resurrected. So yes at some point we believe Joseph Smith will walk on the earth again. But essentially that is no different you walking on the earth again after you die and are resurrected.
The only Messiah Mormons look toward is Christ.
Now if Romney is a nut job and believes something crazy, then that is on him, not on Mormon doctrine.


I am going to vote for Romney because I hope he puts this country on the proper financial track for the future. I don`t believe Obama has or will. In fairness, Obama certainly could have done a worse job these last 4 years.
Smokin Joe
Marine

July 2nd, 2012 @ 11:10AM

Registered:
2006-06-10
Location:
The Land of Chocolate
Posts: 2702
So, when people say that they would rather have Romney in office because he would be like a CEO, and other people balk because he 'outsourced jobs' remember that Obama is doing the same thing with tax dollars, has lost a comparable number of jobs, Much MUCH more money, and the money that he does lose is Not his own, But the Taxpayer's Money.

Absolutely terrifying to me.

I don't want someone to start analyzing the revenues of public programs where profits should never be a primary (or even secondary, in my opinion) goal.
Wootah
non-leet

July 2nd, 2012 @ 12:14PM

Registered:
2003-05-16
Location:
Utah
Posts: 1600
I don't want someone to start analyzing the revenues of public programs where profits should never be a primary (or even secondary, in my opinion) goal.

Except the government doesn't have revenues other than taxes (and printing money). How completely terrifying to expect the non-profit government to only spend as much as it takes in. And for the record the CBO is an entire organization dedicated to the (theoretically non-partisan) analysis of public (and all other). Profits aren't a concern. The continuous sliding into a [ tax -> spend more -> tax more loop ] should ALWAYS be a concern. Unless of course you are someone who isn't paying anything anyway. Then it is left to whichever future generation is holding the mess when it finally collapses.
Wootah
non-leet

July 2nd, 2012 @ 12:20PM

Registered:
2003-05-16
Location:
Utah
Posts: 1600
And Just to add to it. Apparently the claim of even outsourcing while Romney ran Bain wasn't true:

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2012/07/02/Wapo-backs-off-romney-outsource-claim

But of course the Obama campaign is running the advertisemt claiming romney outsourced jobs, when really there wasn't much proof. Do you still think this isn't an emotional ploy?
Charkoth
Right Wing Extremist

July 2nd, 2012 @ 1:09PM

Registered:
2003-05-08
Location:
OHIO
Posts: 2557
Wootah thanks for responding to these guys with sound reason and saying everything so I don't have to. These guys are the Liberal equivalent to the Conservatives who still swear Obama is a Muslim.

If you are going to dislike a guy, dislike him for a factual reason.

Obama had his shot. Odds are Romney has a chance to do much better than Romney. No candidate will be perfect but as long as don't elect anyone successively that isn't successful then their impact should be easy to counter.
Hammer
General

July 2nd, 2012 @ 1:23PM

Registered:
2009-04-07
Location:
Posts: 657
I'm actually a little surprised everyone wants to ignore the religious aspect of this. I suppose this is a microcosm of what's going on in the presidential bid.

To be clear on this note, it's my fundamental belief that you can believe in whatever you want, but you don't have the right to allow yourself to use your religion as a thrompting tool to push your agenda or shove it in someone's face with the fundamental belief if they don't believe what you do, they're wrong.

Someone can (and should) be guided by their religion and temptered by it, but never should it be the sole justification for doing something --- anything.

That's why this topic is fundamental to me. The founding fathers believe in separation of church and state and so do I.

That issue aside - I still don't feel like either candidate has the right playbook they are working from.

Let's look at Obama's last 4 years. Has he tackled topics I care about? Absolutely. Did I get what I wanted out of them? Absolutely not. Every problem he worked with congress to tackle were very basic problems presidents have IGNORED since before Jimmy Carter and he actually made moves towards tackling them. The problem is, in every case, we got such a bastardized version of what the country needs, I feel insulted reading the bills (in many cases, now laws).

Lets run down some of the major ones off the top of my head:

The Jobs Bill: One of the absolute WORST pieces of legislation I have ever read. EVER. Its 2000 pages of garbage filled with earmarks that really only served to make various senators and representatives look good to their states. In far too many cases, this bill ultimately served to help OTHER COUNTRIES instead of our own. We field 2.1 TRILLION Dollars for this pile of shit that the American Economy couldn't actually afford.

The Healthcare act: Another piece of garbage that is ridding on American idealism and not American pragmatism. The bill pretends to attempt to address many of the healthcare issues while ignoring almost every REAL PROBLEM that exists with our healthcare system.

Whos forgetting SOPA? Seriously people --- THREE MONTH MEMORY --- It was just back in March and April every American was bitching about these bills and what it meant for them. Why is this still not a concern today? It should be all the reason you need to vote Obama out (keep in mind, Romney supported this).

The Dream Act: Who here actually READ this bill? What Obama is pitching and what it says are absolutely two different things.

Seriously, we have a law on our books still called "Bait and switch". EVERY SINGLE piece of garbage bill that got shoved through congress over the last 3.5 years has had the same problem. Politicans pitch it as one thing knowing fully well it's not anything like they pitched. Why are we not all but rioting right now over this?

Obama and the current round of congress can't be trusted. They all need to go. However, I'm not too keen on replacing them with their competitors because they don't exactly have good track records EITHER.

EDITED: 2012-07-02 13:30:37
Smokin Joe
Marine

July 2nd, 2012 @ 1:30PM

Registered:
2006-06-10
Location:
The Land of Chocolate
Posts: 2702
Wootah thanks for responding to these guys with sound reason and saying everything so I don't have to. These guys are the Liberal equivalent to the Conservatives who still swear Obama is a Muslim.

I honestly have no idea how you think you'd stand a chance in Politics being as abrasive as you are.

Obama had his shot.

With a Congress that refused to work with him?

I also don't see how this country is worse than where it was 4 years ago, I think he's done a great job that'll only get better with 4 more years.
Wootah
non-leet

July 2nd, 2012 @ 2:30PM

Registered:
2003-05-16
Location:
Utah
Posts: 1600
Smokin Joe.
Most people who accuse congress of not working with him conveniently forget that A single party had majority in both the house and the senate from 2008-2010, and the congress that was elected in 2010 campaigned specifically with a mandate Not to work with him.

And what great things do you see happening? I will even give you he has taken steps towards standard democratic ticket stuff to keep his base happy like his 'evolving view'on gays and amnesty for young illegals... but I am not seeing much else, from the abysmal failure of all the green companies, to the stopping of keystone, to the stimulus, to the auto bailout.... how are any of those good for the country?

Edited for clarity.


EDITED: 2012-07-02 15:51:04
Hammer
General

July 2nd, 2012 @ 3:39PM

Registered:
2009-04-07
Location:
Posts: 657
Smokin Joe --- you don't see how this country is worse?

I'm living in a state that has SLASHING K and Preschool programs because of budget issues, that has AXING most extrcircular activities such as music and most sports programs, that is pulling out of state parks such as the Daniel Boone reserve because they can't pay to maintain them anymore.

Some of this is state related issues, a lot of it is because of money that came into this state from the Federal Government has been re-allocated to things like the failed jobs bill.

I'll concede, some of these issues are STILL left over from the Bush era that were never properly dealt with during Obama's era, but at this stage in the game, yo can't pass blame anymore --- Obama had 2 years under his watch where he could push things almost unchallenged and failed to address most the problems he campaigned on.

I really wish someone would put together a nice clean website that cites Obama's promises in 2008 and cites what he actually did. I think a lot of people would be surprised.

On the topics Wootah is citing, I'm absolutely with him. This presidency has been a failure all around. I think if the country would ever stop this whole "3 month memory" problem, everyone would quickly realize that.

Its been three months since SOPA and no one has even brought that up, its been 6 months since Obama signed that dumb bill that gives the Military the ability to detain people INDEFIANTLY on American Soil.

I didn't like Bush, I HATE Obama.

EDITED: 2012-07-02 19:20:49
BiVRiP
General

July 2nd, 2012 @ 5:37PM

Registered:
2003-05-11
Location:
Canada
Posts: 2048
Most people who accuse congress of not working with him conveniently forget that A single party had majority in both the house and the senate from 2008-2010...

Just to play devil's advocate, while your statement is factually accurate, what most people also conveniently forget is that during that 2 year period there was approximately only a 6 month window in which the Democrats held a super majority in Congress.

SOURCE - Sorry, not the most objective site I could find in my brief Google search but what's important is the key figures and dates referenced which if memory serves are accurate.

Obama basically had one shot to pass the health bill and he banked his entire political capital to ensure the bill got passed. Given the climate and rhetoric at the time, it's not that hard to see in retrospect that once the bill was passed it would be unlikely anything else would ever get done without a super majority (look up the stats on Republican filibuster/cloture attempts during Obama's administration - it's pretty telling)


@ Hammer:
The best site I can find for tracking campaign promises is the following...

PolitiFact

And you're right, the information is surprising.

EDITED: 2012-07-02 17:39:02
meorah
Marine

July 2nd, 2012 @ 5:53PM

Registered:
2003-04-10
Location:
Posts: 515
to follow up, not only was there only a 6 month super majority, but 2008-2010 were really bad years to try and do anything that wasn't related to saving the economy, so it was politically untenable to try and do anything other than the healthcare bill (and arguably that is a bet that hasn't paid off yet).
Charkoth
Right Wing Extremist

July 2nd, 2012 @ 7:19PM

Registered:
2003-05-08
Location:
OHIO
Posts: 2557
Joe,

Trying to be offend no one and please everyone more than anything else has gotten this country in the mess it is now. We need straight talking no bullshit politicians in office, and if that means hurting a few (or many) people's feelings, so be it. The truth can be painful.

BivRip is that politifact site a Joke? Are those the same campaign promises I remember? I love how it is supposed to be about Obama yet they throw the GOP in there so it doesn't have to be an Obama promise broken. I'm glad Obama broke most of his promises personally....almost everything he promised scared the hell out of me.

And Hammer....Romney's religion should matter about as much as Obama's. I'm a die-hard Christian and I think the Mormon religion is a cult. Does that influence my decision to support Romney one bit? No. It is the guys like Huckabee that flaunt their religion coming into power that scare me. Romney keeps his Religion out of his politics and that suits me fine. His "cult" religion shares the same core values I believe in (minus the space aliens part) so that is all I care about.
Hammer
General

July 2nd, 2012 @ 7:34PM

Registered:
2009-04-07
Location:
Posts: 657
@ Charkoth

BOTH of them scare me for a religious standpoint. Like I've said before, its not so much their religion that scares me in either case, it's that both are carrying around messianic tendencies that suggest to many they actually think they are the messiah of their given religion (and once again, in Obama's case, we don't exactly know what that means).

To put it in more plane English; would you elect someone to office who thinks they are the reincarnation of Jesus?

Education teaches us that great leaders can lead from any where in the organizational. Without delving too much into this topic, I don't think Jesus himself would ever run for president.

In the case of both Obama and Romney, their messianic complex SCARES me. They have power and want more and more.

I think Rush actually put it best that if Obama manages to complete 8 years as president, he wont be able to let go of power, he'll want to run for president of the World (or something).
BiVRiP
General

July 2nd, 2012 @ 8:38PM

Registered:
2003-05-11
Location:
Canada
Posts: 2048
Yes Charkoth, the site is legit. To quote the wiki article, its purpose is to "fact-check statements by members of Congress, the White House, lobbyists and interest groups".

Perhaps there's a better website out there but I've yet to come across it. The only other fact-check site worth mentioning is FactCheck.org (a good site, but it doesn't specifically track promises like PolitiFact so much as general statements, comments during debates and hot-button topics of the day).


Smokin Joe
Marine

July 3rd, 2012 @ 7:40AM

Registered:
2006-06-10
Location:
The Land of Chocolate
Posts: 2702
Most people who accuse congress of not working with him conveniently forget that A single party had majority in both the house and the senate from 2008-2010, and the congress that was elected in 2010 campaigned specifically with a mandate Not to work with him.

I didn't forget, I remember many Democrats also holding Barack hostage. He also had to deal with an Economy that was spiraling out of control and to play the game of Politics in trying to get promises he made accomplished while not completely dividing the country (which rabble rousers in the Media did anyway).

He hasn't been perfect, but he's been very good under more scrutiny than any President before him. Bush got pretty ugly at the end, but had a comfortable time during a lot of his Presidency. As much as the Media has propped President Obama up on a pedestal, I don't see where people make the logical connection that he believes he is so.

Trying to be offend no one and please everyone more than anything else has gotten this country in the mess it is now. We need straight talking no bullshit politicians in office, and if that means hurting a few (or many) people's feelings, so be it. The truth can be painful.

You may be right, but if you can't purvey that in a halfway decent manner, you'll gain no support from anyone, even those who are likeminded. Straight talking doesn't mean being an abrasive person that talks down to those willing to listen.

EDITED: 2012-07-03 08:07:14
Wootah
non-leet

July 3rd, 2012 @ 8:06AM

Registered:
2003-05-16
Location:
Utah
Posts: 1600
Hammer, I realize that many of Obama's followers have made messianic claims. He hasn't.
I don't believe for a second Romney has messianic beliefs, and if he ever did or announced them, he would instantly be renounced by the Mormon Church. I was going to use the word blasphemous earlier with regards to how Mormons would react to your comment about being the second coming of Joseph Smith. But I backed off from that because it might distort the discussion at hand, and make people think I was referring to joseph smith as deity or that he should be reverenced, He isn't. He was just a Man who was chosen of God to serve. Mathias did a great job addressing that. Every Person is important and Joseph Smith was no savior to the Mormons. There is only one name under the heavens that can save mankind and that is not Romney.

As for this comment charkoth:
His "cult" religion shares the same core values I believe in (minus the space aliens part) so that is all I care about.

Are you sure you aren't confusing mormonism with Scientology? Because there are no aliens in mormonism (unless I misunderstood you and you believe in aliens).
Smokin Joe
Marine

July 3rd, 2012 @ 8:13AM

Registered:
2006-06-10
Location:
The Land of Chocolate
Posts: 2702
I'm in the process of reading Under the Banner of Heaven and while it does rile me up, it's the Fundamentalist Mormons that really make the religion look bad. Just like any religion, the Fundies ruin it for everyone.

I find it kinda funny that now with there being hardly any worthy Republican candidates, his Mormonism isn't a big deal. I don't think it ever should have been, even now.

Hell, when he was untouchable as even VP for last election (which I think would have helped a lot towards his run this season), he was a Gov. that supported the rights for Abortions. He won't lead based off of scripture, but he probably won't lead in any consistent way either.
Hammer
General

July 3rd, 2012 @ 8:45AM

Registered:
2009-04-07
Location:
Posts: 657
I'm not wholly sure what Obama himself believes and for me, that's kind of the problem. The only thing that's clear to me is he likes power, he gets annoyed with people who don't respect his power (which in his mind is clearly 1 or 2 notches over what it should be) and he clearly wants to ascend to more power after his presidency. All the tall tell signs are there. Weather he himself actually has a messianic complex or not, I really can't be sure. There are signs he does and signs he doesn't. Clearly a fringe sect of his audience has a messianic complex for him though. The only question there, is, how big is that population. Certainly only a small number of them are fanatical, the rest seem to swing in and swing out of that belief at the drop of a dime (and on which side of the line that dime drops).

Really --- its no wonder that both camps pretty much agreed religion is off limits. Both have everything to lose if religion enters the equation.

Honestly, this is really why conservatives would have been more then wise to rally behind someone like Trump. He had some *REALLY* good ideas IMHO about saving the economy, but more then that, he doesn't carry the baggage that Romney does that forces him to make informal concessions to make certain topics off limits. He would have been able to exploit every aspect that fanatic Obama supporters have towards him without fear of an attack on something Trump did in the past, as everything "bad" he's done has been talked to death and actually potentially serve as talking points for him.

As Rush said in the past, only Trump was able to get Obama to pony up his birth certificate.
GroverDill
Special Ops

July 3rd, 2012 @ 10:18AM

Registered:
2003-04-09
Location:
your mom's house
Posts: 802
Really --- its no wonder that both camps pretty much agreed religion is off limits. Both have everything to lose if religion enters the equation.

No, seriously - nobody cares about religion in this election. Nobody anywhere believes that either candidate believes they are the Messiah. People care about unemployment, the economy, taxation and health care, not unsubstantiated religious conspiracy woowoo.

Also, maybe try not listening to Rush Limbaugh so much. I don't think that is working out well for you.

EDITED: 2012-07-03 10:23:32
Hammer
General

July 3rd, 2012 @ 10:50PM

Registered:
2009-04-07
Location:
Posts: 657
GroverDill --- something tells me you're in your own little world there bud.


You are unable to add Comments because you are not
logged in. If you have an account please login in now.

You can Create an Account, it takes less then a minute.



Return to top