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Friday, August 11th, 2006SUGGEST NEWS

Isralie Conflict: Movie You Should Watch
Posted by: Nebuchadnezzar on August 11th, 2006 @ 1:54AM

  • Link - This is a great movie to watch to help understand the Iraelie conflict.

    It's really sad how many Americans know nothing of this conflict and just what the Israelies are up against. The Palistinians should not get their own state. They're a bunch of suicide bomber terrorists. It's not all their fault because their leaders brainwash them like nazis, however we sure didn't feel bad about killing nazis did we? Did we care how they got that way?

    COMMENTS (16) | ISRAELIE CONFLICT | DIGG
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    dandaman111188
    women run from me

    August 11th, 2006 @ 12:16AM

    Registered:
    2004-04-13
    Location:
    So Cal
    Posts: 696
    it will help you understand the conflict from the palestinian point of view. i only watched the first 2 and a half minutes and i could already tell it was going to be biased.

    Main counterpoints already.
    1. The land was owned by the british empire, not the palestinians
    2. The israelies did not "steal" the land, they owned 95% of the land before israel was proclaimed a nation. They bought that land, whether they bought it at a low or high price(i think some people were ripped off for sure), the land was legally theirs
    kaoschizm
    Peon

    August 11th, 2006 @ 12:52AM

    Registered:
    2003-04-01
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts: 228
    Dandaman, why not shut up and watch the whole thing before bitching, you can`t possibly judge something from 2 and a half minutes, it actually puts forward the point of view from both sides, and if anything is slightly skewed towards isreal IMO.

    The reason people are so narrow minded on both sides of this argument is because they`ll only ever watch something that reinforces their own point of view. Why are people so afraid to have their opinions challenged?




    kaoschizm
    Peon

    August 11th, 2006 @ 1:23AM

    Registered:
    2003-04-01
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts: 228
    ok after watching the whole thing it`s obviously very pro-isreal. Interesting how they focus heavily on isreali deaths but gloss over the much greater number of palestiniens killed during the same time period.

    I think this, together with the other film posted from google give a good view of how both sides see the conflict, although I`ve yet to see something truly neutral produced
    Disastrous Fate
    General

    August 11th, 2006 @ 2:16AM

    Registered:
    2004-02-09
    Location:
    Posts: 1137
    "Main counterpoints already.
    1. The land was owned by the british empire, not the palestinians
    2. The israelies did not "steal" the land, they owned 95% of the land before israel was proclaimed a nation. They bought that land, whether they bought it at a low or high price(i think some people were ripped off for sure), the land was legally theirs"

    Thats like saying to the American Indians 150 years ago that: 1. The land was owned by the Americans.
    2.The Americans did not `steal` the land, they just bought it off of each other.

    I`m sorry, but I just don`t understand how anyone could argue that the founding of Israel wasn`t a human rights violation. Did you know that, as soon as the British pulled out, the Israelis used their military forces to force most of the Palestinians out of the region (at the time, they were still a majority)? Did you know that, as soon as the Palestinians left, all of their homes, towns, etc. were demolished? There are lists of hundreds of towns, villages, etc. that were demolished by the Israelis. Finally, they never let the grand majority of the Palestinians back in. Ever. That in itself is a human rights violation.

    I know there is the obvious counter-argument that the muslims themselves had been participating in ever larger protests, a few violent, against the growing Zionist presence: but can you blame them? I mean.. look what happened. Weren`t they.. correct?

    If you look before Zionism, arab jews and muslims lived together for centuries. Anti-semitism did not cause anti-Zionist feelings, Zionist actions brought anti-semitism.

    However, all I`m arguing here is that the founding of Israel was a human rights violation. Whether or not other forces were involved (namely, absentee lords of the land) is a non-issue, the zionists were still deeply involved in human rights violations.

    What`s happened since then is a very different situation. Both sides have screwed up, both sides have points, and both sides deserve to be heard. Calling the Palestinians nazis for hating Israel? Thats extremist to say the least. And saying that they don`t deserve a state.. what exactly do you want to happen? Do you want all the Palestinians to just die? Do you really think thats the solution? To kill these people because they are angry because they were wronged?

    I just can`t understand that position.
    xtychx
    Peon

    August 11th, 2006 @ 3:35AM

    Registered:
    2003-10-29
    Location:
    Los Estados Unidos
    Posts: 19
    I`m a conservative Jewish person in America and I still think both sides should get their own state. Even so, it is hard to refute that Israel has been more lenient in their offers. Despite this, I still think a 50/50 split of the land would be perfectly fair, the problem is that both parties can never decide on which half to give to each.
    TheaterWorker
    Peon

    August 11th, 2006 @ 11:31AM

    Registered:
    2004-04-21
    Location:
    Tromaville
    Posts: 308
    You watched 3 percent of it and you`re saying it`s biased? That`s cute.

    If you watch the whole thing you`ll actually see it is extremely skewed in favor of Isreal. I think there was one negative comment about the actions of Isreal in the whole thing. Oh yeah, that`s balanced.
    Nebuchadnezzar
    The King

    August 11th, 2006 @ 12:17PM

    Registered:
    2003-03-20
    Location:
    Irvine, CA
    Posts: 3978
    Palistinians needed to be booted out of Israel. If I was Israel I'd get out the bulldozers and push every one of them out of the country. They have had a chance to live peacefully and instead turn to terror and wish to kill every jew. I totally support whatever Israel does to them. In 3 years, 19,000 terrorist attacks. They target civilians. They brainwash kids from birth into being suicide bombers. Exterminate the terrorist element. If whoever else doesn't like it, get the fuck out just like many other Palys have chosen to do. The Arab world could easily take any palys in their countries and have.

    Palistinians are no different than the rest of the radical islam groups that are attacking our country and want us all dead. They're a bunch of terrorist fux.

    EDITED: 2006-08-11 12:33:42
    Eisenwolf
    Peon

    August 11th, 2006 @ 12:35PM

    Registered:
    2004-03-01
    Location:
    Germany - home of the pacifist nazis where people poop on each other for fun
    Posts: 774
    xtychx: the problem is that many cities and sites are holy to both. In my opinion Israel needs physical borders so the palestinian should move to Jordan and the state of Israel should compensate for the loss of land. Holy sites e.g. the Temple Mount should be neutral and secured by international forces.

    That`s not nice Nebu
    Istari
    Kali Compton

    August 11th, 2006 @ 12:45PM

    Registered:
    2003-03-26
    Location:
    Irvine, California
    Posts: 945
    Thanks for the link, watched it during lunch :)

    It sure stirs up a lot of anger towards palestine for me. It's like when two kids are having a fight, and the parent is supposed to teach them to resolve it. Both kids might have done wrong but they're supposed to put it aside and do the good thing and make up. But then despite one kid saying 'ok lets be friends' the other kid can only continue to hate the other and refuses to make up.

    So all there is left for Israel to do is fight back, and in return they get coutner-attacked by terrorism. The cycle never ends. That area is the cancer of the world.
    Disastrous Fate
    General

    August 11th, 2006 @ 2:17PM

    Registered:
    2004-02-09
    Location:
    Posts: 1137
    "It`s like when two kids are having a fight, and the parent is supposed to teach them to resolve it. Both kids might have done wrong but they`re supposed to put it aside and do the good thing and make up. But then despite one kid saying `ok lets be friends` the other kid can only continue to hate the other and refuses to make up.

    So all there is left for Israel to do is fight back, and in return they get coutner-attacked by terrorism. The cycle never ends. That area is the cancer of the world."

    Yeah, I agree. Except it started when one kid beat the other one up, stole all his toys, and peed on his face. Now the bully offers to play nice, the parents sit on their thumbs and act like nothing is happening, and the other kid still doesn`t trust the bully - so he punches him. Now the parents notice, and they help the bully punish the kid. And then it happens again and again and again and again and again and again and....
    DeafKid
    Peon

    August 11th, 2006 @ 2:45PM

    Registered:
    2003-03-26
    Location:
    Nebraska
    Posts: 119
    Wow, You try to say that front of Palistinian and they will say screw you to you and that is their land for very long time. They don`t really care if it used to be Israel. They will be happy to blow up Israel peopple and sacrifice their live just to take over their land back. Palestinians and Jewish people used to live together in a peace way for long time in Israel. Only until early 1900s, Israeli people set up their own governments and terrorized a lot of people for maybe 10 or 20 years before U.N. declared that Israeli people own the land and they could set up the Government. That`s what really made Palestinian angry. Some jewish people believed that they should take their land back which actually did make it happen. Especially, this is interesting because majority of jewish people resisted the idea of taking over Israel which is considered to be their homeland according to their religion. Now, Palestinian believe that the land that they have been living for more than a thousand years to be their home. Both group of people do not care if they have proof that this is their homeland, they will be happy to die just to take their land back. It is like their soul. I`m pretty sure some people would sacrifice their lives to fight against foreign occupants to have Americans take over our lands back. Have you heard of what is zionist movement. That is what it is and Arabic people hate them for it so they insulted them with these terms like that.
    DeafKid
    Peon

    August 11th, 2006 @ 2:50PM

    Registered:
    2003-03-26
    Location:
    Nebraska
    Posts: 119
    Also, I understand, I believe that it is morally wrong to teach kids to hate people and become terrorists to blow up. However, to look at that way, they view Israeli people to be terrorists so they decide to be equal with them by acting that way. Therefore, they feel like they would.
    Intolerance
    Marine

    August 11th, 2006 @ 5:06PM

    Registered:
    2003-04-30
    Location:
    Kansas
    Posts: 224
    Ya well we can always keep going back in history and say who owned what. Do I care that Palestinians were the majority and pushed off their land? no. Two thousand years ago the Jews were the majority and before that somebody else was and on and on and on. Might eventually makes right. The problem today is that Israel cannot retaliate in the way people have for hundreds of years to deal with terrorists and rebels. You burn everyone out and take the women and children to labor camps or kill them. That was a fast effective solution to festering problems like this one. Today all they can do is demonstrate their might and let the terrorists hide amoungst their women and children. I would support Israel invading Iran and Syria in addition to Lebanon. All those cowards only understand two things. Power and death.

    Now the Europeans would have us believe that kissing butt is the only way to appease the vengeful Islamic hordes. Who, by the way have been exploited (yes exploited OMG OMG OMG) by American and Israeli capitalist pigs! I can`t even begin to fathom the amount of stupidity and spinelessness it takes to be a fullfledged buttkissing European Union member. At the same time they press against Israel, they deal contemptously with their own Arabs. Arabs in France and Germany are discriminated again much more openly and frequently then a black in America today. You know why? Because their cowards, hypocrits and liars.

    They sincerely believe that if you steal from the rich, and blame, blame, blame the powerful you will get equality and riches for all. Note to worthless pos, get a job, get a gun, and get some balls.
    GroverDill
    Special Ops

    August 11th, 2006 @ 6:14PM

    Registered:
    2003-04-09
    Location:
    your mom's house
    Posts: 802
    Thats like saying to the American Indians 150 years ago that: 1. The land was owned by the Americans.
    2.The Americans did not `steal` the land, they just bought it off of each other.


    Okay, so if the American Indians and the Palestineans got screwed in a similar manner. What would be your response to a militant American Indian uprising where they started blowing up buses and demanding California as a form of reparations? Would you give them California?

    I don't mean to be a jerk. I feel bad for the Palestineans, but at some point they have to quit fighting and make the best of their current situation. Seriously, they should turn all of the Palestinean Territory into a giant casino and start taking the Israelis' money left and right.
    Disastrous Fate
    General

    August 12th, 2006 @ 3:19AM

    Registered:
    2004-02-09
    Location:
    Posts: 1137
    I never said I completely agreed with the Palestinians. I just try to get people to see it a little bit more from their viewpoint.

    "Ya well we can always keep going back in history and say who owned what. Do I care that Palestinians were the majority and pushed off their land? no. Two thousand years ago the Jews were the majority and before that somebody else was and on and on and on."

    The difference is that the things the Romans did back then are actually considered bad now, such as: slavery, genocide, rape en masse, etc. If you want to go back to those times, then the Palestinians aren`t really in the wrong either. Nobody is ever wrong, and we all have the moral authority to do what we want. If that sounds like the argument you thought you put forth, you are probably insane.

    Also, we have to keep in mind that, even if this was Jewish land 2000 years ago, that doesn`t mean anything now. England was controlled by the Welsh and Bretons just 1400-1600 years ago, should we argue that England should be retaken by the Celts? I don`t think any reasonable person in the world would argue in the affirmative. However, when the population shift happened, literally, a generation or two ago, its a very different situation. People still feel the loss, the anger, the hatred. People still have grandparents who can describe their home with some clarity; a home, I`m sorry to say that was, literally, destroyed by the early Zionists. Especially now in a world that claims to support human rights. How can we defeat terrorism in Iraq without pushing human rights? How can we possibly create a democracy unless the very basis of democracy, human rights, is shown to be the truth of all truths? How can we do this when we say human rights "don`t count" in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict because of... whatever reason you are putting forth. The easy answer: we just can`t.

    Once again, I`m not completely anti-Israel. I think a great human rights violation was made when Israel was born, but I think another human rights violation would result if Israel were destroyed. I can`t stomach either. I really hope for peace in the middle east, but I just can`t see that happening by killing en masse, racism, genocide, or any other radical solution (either from the terrorist side of the argument or the radical zionist side of the argument).

    What`s the solution? Well, I certainly don`t think the current conflict is anywhere near it. Engagement and trust are the necessary components. I understand completely that Israel is in a tough position: there are always radicals who do not accept the status quo. Nonetheless, I think Israel is the only one who can build the peace. When we discuss Hamas vs. Israel, we must keep in mind that these are not equivalent organizations. Israel has the centralization, the power, the prestige, the respect, etc. to make its wishes come true. Even if a few enlightened leaders of Hamas pop up, there will always be some asshole in the New Hamas to ruin everything unless Israel is willing to make a few sacrifices. I understand that its unfair to ask Israel to make these sacrifices, but, then again, perhaps thats the atonement for Israel`s initial human rights violations.

    Afterall, you don`t see me building a home in a hornets` nest and then complain when I get stung.
    Templer16
    Lamer

    August 12th, 2006 @ 1:45PM

    Registered:
    2003-04-25
    Location:
    Posts: 119
    The plain and simple truth of the matter is both sides have justifaction.

    The UN picked the worse spot in the world to place the jews. I do feel sorry for the Palistines I mean they got booted off their most scarced land. Does this mean they should terrorize Isreal?? Hell no!

    But you also have to look at facts heres Isreal,(along with Western powers) punted you off your land. So you fight to take it back, well Isreal has a large standing army and the technology to mop the floor with the entire Middle East. So unfortantly they(Palistine) turn to terrorism to cause the most damage, military wise it make sense.

    What alot of people dont get is how religious this war is, they cant just "deal with it" Plus these people live in crap, so to do for god with the promise of heaven, sounds great to them.


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